by The Dragonater
OAK RIDGE, TENN. -- In both of the following "news" stories this week, by WBIR and KNS, those "news" corporations are paid millions of taxdollars for promoting Police State propaganda, to keep the sheeple as stoopid as possible -- the easier to knock their heads off...literally.
One relevant and material issue censored from these articles is the fact that Oak Ridge city council admitted that all speed limits in Oak Ridge are illegal, under TN Code. These are the same "speed limits" sued by foreign traffic camera tickets.
Note that ALL red-light scameras in Knoxville also shoot radar, as proven by The Dragonater:
The Dragonater was threatened with arrest by Judge Mary Beth Leibowitz for daring to subpoena those media-govt contracts under the Tennessee Open Records Act, during the Red-light Sniper Trial, where a Knox County deputy sheriff confessed to the crime, and all charges were dismissed against Clifford Clark. The Dragonater hosts and edits the Original Kill Red-light Cameras website. The Dragonater is permanently banned from posting comments by both KNS and WBIR websites, and KNS and WBIR lawyers sued the Dragonater for sanctions for daring to demand copies of their illegal contracts for govt propaganda during the Red-light Camera Sniper Trial.
How many other patriots are banned from posting comments that dare deviate from the Police State propaganda profit BY POSTING USEFUL FACTS OF LAW AND STRATEGY FOR WINNING IN TRAFFIC COURT? Factual comments the Dragonater routinely posts, that are 100% censored from these "news" articles and comments:
"It is extremely easy to beat this type of ticket in court. Your easiest defense is to simply throw the ticket away. If it does not come with a return receipt that requires a signature, there is no proof that you actually got the ticket."
-Norman G. Fernandez, attorney, free ebook How to Beat a Speeding Ticket - Photo RADAR
"Your photo radar defense: Ignoring The Letter. When you receive a general post letter advising you of your photo radar citation, you have the option of just ignoring it. All states have guidelines on how the citation must be served. In effect, your payment or appearance at the courthouse is your acceptance of service. By not responding to the letter, you are refusing acceptance of service. In addition, none of the departments are making personal service to anyone that lists a PO Box as their mailing address on their vehicle registrations."
-Lt "Radar" Roy Reyer, Maricopa County Sheriff Office, Phoenix, Arizona, RadarBusters.com, Your Photo Radar Defense
"Govt control of communications and transportation."
-Communist Manifesto, 6th Plank
"COP.
2. to steal; filch. 3. to buy (narcotics). 4. cop out, a. to avoid one's responsibility, the fulfillment of a promise, etc.; renege; back out. 5. cop a plea, a. to plead guilty or confess in return for receiving a lighter sentence. b. to plead guilty to a lesser charge; plea-bargain.
-Random House Unabridged Dictionary
"The US Supreme Court said in Miranda that there's 40,000 police jurisdictions in America. We expect one civil rights crime in every one of those agencies every day. 40,000 times 365 days a year is 14,600,000 crimes committed by police every year. Hell, there's only 14,200,000 crimes committed by the criminals. The police commit more crimes against the People than the criminals commit!"
-George Gordon Radio Show, The Policeman Is Not Your Friend, He Is Your Adversary
"I’ll burn your house down, set your dog on fire and there won’t be a member of your family left, do you understand me? I won’t hire it done, I will do it myself! Do you understand me?”
-Blount County Deals Gap sheriff James Berrong, United States Court of Appeals, Sixth Circuit, Nuchols v. Berrong, No. 04-5645, July 11, 2005
Of course, the easiest way to beat a redlight/radar camera ticket is to throw it in the trash and ignore it, for lack of personal service of process, as required for all civil lawsuits.
75% of AZ Drivers Refuse to Pay Photo Traffic Tickets
85% of TX Drivers Refuse to Pay Photo Traffic Tickets
Only the DUMB pay Redlight Tickets
Federal class action to refund all Redflex tickets in Knoxville TN
The question is, why is this fact censored from the signs by a member of Tennessee Liberty Alliance? What other facts are censored by TLA... that the "Federal" Reserve Bank is no more federal than Federal Express, counterfeits all "US dollar bills" out of thin air and keeps 100% of income tax without any going to the govt? That the 16th Amendment for an income tax was never ratified by the states and the income tax was outlawed by the US Supreme Court? That Top Secret govt CAFR "pension funds" steal $70-trillion/year from the taxslaves and could run all govt services without any taxes whatsoever?
Never mind that Redflex in Oak Ridge is a foreign corporation that keeps 90% of camera ticket revenue. $500,000 Knoxville Redflex invoice paid to National Australia Bank
"Redflex Group is based in South Melbourne, Victoria, Australia. Redflex Holdings Limited was listed on the Australian Stock Exchange in January 1997. Redflex Traffic Systems Inc has contracts with more then 130 USA cities, and is the largest provider of digital red light and speed enforcement services in North America."
—Redflex.com
Never mind that pesky Constitutional right to travel without an Internal Passport, or that speeding is SIX TIMES SAFER than a posted speed limit, according to Ralph Nader and USDOT.
"For decades, speed was the subject of the most widespread slogans drummed into the public. 'Speed kills' and 'slow down and live' are familiar ones peddled by the National Safety Council. The findings showed a more complex picture of the role of speed than had ever been assumed before. Accident involvement rates are at a minimum at speeds between fifty and seventy five miles per hour. Although obviously the severity of accidents is greater at higher speeds, the study revealed that considering accident frequency rates and severity, the number of injuries per vehicle miles traveled is at its minimum [up to six times lower]. The law embodies an invincible rationale: 'He had an accident; therefore he violated the law.' No distinction is made between responsibility for the accident and responsibility for the injury due to unsafe vehicle design or construction. Manslaughter charges are filed routinely against drivers; there is yet to be recorded any similar charges against the manufacturers for vehicle defects. A typical police traffic accident report has a list of 'contributing circumstances' which the officer is to check off: 'Speed too fast; failed to yield right of way; drove left of center; improper overtaking; passed stop sign; ran traffic signal; improper lights; had been drinking; and other improper driving.' Thus the driver is heir to all the dangers created by the automobile designers, not only in terms of bodily injury but also in terms of legal exposure. The result of this drastic imbalance in the law is the very poor quality of accident investigation in this country. Consequently, enforcement of the law brings no pressure on the car makers to increase the safety of their vehicles."
-Ralph Nader, attorney at law, from Unsafe at Any Speed - The Designed-In Dangers of the American Automobile, quoting David Soloman in Accidents on Main Rural Highways Related to Speed, Driver and Vehicle , FHwA (1964)
Solomon, David. 1964. Accidents on main rural highways related to speed, driver, and vehicle. Washington, DC: US Department of Commerce, Bureau of Public Roads
"The Right of the Citizen to travel upon public highways by automobile is not a mere privilege which may be permitted or prohibited at will, but the common Right which he has under his Right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, under Constitutional guarantee."
-II Am.Jur. (1st) Constitutional Law, Sect.329
"The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime."
-Miller v. US, 230 F 486, 489
"There can be no sanction or penalty imposed upon one because of this exercise of constitutional Rights."
-Snerer vs. Cullen, 481 F. 946
"Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no rule making or legislation which would abrogate them."
-Miranda vs. Arizona, 384 US 436, 491
Even the TN Supreme Court and Oak Ridge City Council agree that all speed limits are illegal, because Big Brother is incapable of obeying The Law of TN Code, and Order by the TN Court of Appeals in CITY OF OAK RIDGE v. DIANA RUTH BROWN.
And why do none of the "comments" mention The Dragonater, who happens to be the #1 opponent of traffic scameras in TN, going head-to-head with current Governor Billionaire Haslam over unconstitutional camera tickets on live TV, with the #1 website and Hollywood-award-winning TV/radio show exposing camera ticket fraud, with 80,000 website hits per month and over 5-million video downloads, as seen at a LEGAL 212 mph on a public highway on History Channel?
Signs opposing Oak Ridge red light cameras confiscated
WBIR TV
A member of an East Tennessee advocacy group says Oak Ridge is taking down their political signs, violating their freedom of speech. The city claims the sign placement violates city code.
"They are not for safety. They are for revenue only for Oak Ridge," Kay Williamson of the Tennessee Liberty Alliance said.
Williamson is so passionate about red light cameras that she's spent her own money to make signs and post them.
"It says kill traffic cameras and obey the Constitution," she said.
The signs keep disappearing.
So, this past weekend she made sure to place them next to other signs for real estate, yard sales, and cable service.
Then she kept watch with her camera phone.
"This is the actual officer getting out of his car taking down the signs," she said, pointing to a photo on her phone. "Oak Ridge Police came Saturday night at approximately 12:00 midnight and removed our signs only, and did not remove any of the yard signs."
Oak Ridge City Manager Mark Watson denied selective enforcement of Oak Ridge's strict sign ordinance.
"Once it's in the city's rights of way, it is fair game and will be removed," Watson said.
Oak Ridge City Council Member Anne Garcia Garland said red-light cameras are "an ongoing, divisive issue" in the community and she appreciates citizens like Williamson bringing forward complaints.
She said only the City Council as a whole had the power to launch an investigation into allegations of improper sign removal.
The owner of Anderson's Hilltop Market said he's given permission for those anti-red light camera signs to be posted on his private property, and he's personally seen city code enforcement pull up those signs.
"Our folks know exactly where the rights of way are," Watson explained. "Every political campaign that comes around we sit down with political candidates and say you have to be so far from the curb and so far from the road, so we know there that signage should be or should not be."
Confiscated signs end up in an area called "sign jail." On Monday, there was quite a variety of signs in the fenced-in area.
However, Williamson said Tennessee Liberty Alliance is considering filing a discrimination lawsuit. "They came around town and only removed the kill the red light camera signs," Williamson said.
Editors note: Glenn Jacobs, who identifies himself as Vice President of the Tennessee Liberty Alliance, contacted 10 News with this statement, "While the TLA opposes red light cameras in Oak Ridge and fully supports the right to free expression, the TLA has not discussed nor authorized any exploration of a lawsuit in regards to the cameras and/or the missing signs."
According to Community Development Director Kathryn Baldwin, the Oak Ridge sign ordinance does allow for certain exceptions. Those include campaign signs during elections and directional signs for auctions and open houses on weekends.
Comments
I would be happy to donate some money to a group that is fighting this.
And here I thought Big Brother was Just a part of a fiction book by H.G.Wells YOU GO GIRL NEED HELP JUST LET ME KNOW
YOU GO, Kay! I don't know how United States cities ever weaseled their way past the US constitution to end up in bed with companies who promise to split the profits off the backs of US citizens. How did we let this happen?? If we let them monitor our behavior electronically, where will it stop?? And how can city council members alienate their constituency by enacting policies that make us angry on a daily basis? you'd think that would be political suicide... I DON'T WANT TO BE MONITORED ELECTRONICALLY!
I would strongly encourage Ms. Williamson to investigate what is going on in Florida. The red light cameras are fading fast due to public's unwillingness to go down without a fight. Due to the fact that people are packing courtrooms and refusing to pay the fines, the red light cameras have become a money pit for the municipalities. The question of calibration of the devices to the lack of a police officer who reviewed the tapes being unable to make every court appearance. What many people do not realize is that there are a high percentage of these tickets that are not paid by those "ticketed" in Knoxville. The KNS has a link that shows outstanding tickets yet to be paid from a year ago. The public needs to know and the media needs to help and not blindly support these municipalities.
the red light camera is a scam. NOBODY DOES THE SPEED LIMIT!! NOBODY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NOBODY MAKES COMPLETE STOPS !!!!!!!!! unless a car is actually coming, but nobody makes complete stops NOBODY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The red light camera are a scam, and that's the end of it! TAKE THEM OFF!!!! and I bet the one who is getting rich off this camera, DOES NOT MAKE COMPLETE STOPS, and...DOES NOT DO THE SPEED LIMIT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the hell with the cameras!!!!
That lady needs to get a compass and make sure where she is, if I didn't know any better, I'd swear she's in Commie China!
Hey Oak Ridge, I am an American Soldier and wear my uniform very proud. For the last 25 years I have fought for FREEDOM OF SPEECH in 2 combat zones and defend the constitution every day when I go to work. Confiscating those signs is nothing short of what Hitler and Saddam Hussein did for years. When I hear of stuff like this, it just makes me sad for the families of our fallen service members who fought for freedom of speech just to watch it taken away. The city of Oak Ridge that I knew long ago didn't do the citizens that way.
I'm afraid the cameras are only the tip of the iceberg and are mainly here to "test the waters" of whats to come.
Red light cameras are a gimmick and the only ones who really make money are the companies that put them in and maintain them. If you want safety, put a delay in from the time one road turns red and the other road turns green. Any idiots that run the light will be through before the other road is green. The worst is right on red cameras. No way for a camera to tell if you came to a complete stop. I have heard you have to stop for two to three seconds for the camera to register a stop. That is stupid. What happened to the Constitutional right to face your accuser? Ever try to question a camera picture as to what the situation was? They are a scam and people are stupid to keep letting them continue to add to them around the country.
Ah come on,if you take down the cameras the cops will have to get off their A** and do something, many study's show they increase accidents but that's irrelevant to the big bucks coming in so you are screwed.
This is the least of our worries. I hardly go into Knoxville unless I really have to. I never have a ticket in my life till one beautiful day I got a ticket in the mail. The violation was, I failed to stop at a traffic light making a right hand turn. The pictures indicated that I did not stop but there was a problem, WHY WAS MY BRAKE LIGHTS ON!!!!!!!!! I spoke with a relative that works for law enforcement about the situation and they advise me not fight it. Their reason was court cost. The traffic cameras are sub-contracted out so if you pay the ticket it goes to the contractor. If you go to court you pay the city. Get it yet? Court cost $250.00 win or loose. $50 to the contractors. Do the math. What a scam! Knoxville you sure are losing business! Who wants to go to a place that scams people!
First the scamera side says it is for safety: LIE, since most of the "violations" are techincal fouls like non dangeorus right turns on red, stopping over the stop line, and split second mistakes. In the meantime most RLV crashes are plus 5 seconds into red and have secondary themes a RLC are USELESS AT STOPPING! (DUI, fleeing police not paying attention, medical/mechanical).
Then the SCAMERA side says the public "supports" RLC. Using polls like the one in Houston that said the public wanted the scameras. The only problem was the VOTERS BANNED THE RLC THE NEXT MONTH! Then the scamra side says they will respect the "results", but in Houston and in places like Wasthington State the scamera side is TR YING TO OVERTURN THE PUBLIC VOTE! Next we have Studies like that IIHS FRAUD study, read latest blasting of it: Now we have the scamera side RESORTING to CENSORING SPEECH! (and I haven't even mentioned the Astro Turf the scamera side pays for to give the illusion of support either!) FIGHT THE SCAM! Ban the CAMS! LET THE PEOPLE VOTE! THIS IS A DEMOCRACY! NOT A SCAMERA COMPANY FIFEDOM!
www.motorists.org
www.banthecams.org
www.camerafraud.com
www.bancams.com
also check out Anti TN CAMERA SITES:
http://www.facebook.com/killtncams
http://www.facebook.com/MJCameras
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Take-Down-the-Murfreesboro-Traffic-Cameras/175910999111368
http://naturaltreasure.net/scameras/
have you ever wonder why the videos have no sound? with audio sound it could interfere the scam. so the scameras need to have the ability to slow down or speed up the video and make your car look like it was going faster than what it actually was. We were not born yesterday, that is how they made knight rider KITT look going fast in the movies, but they added separate engine sound, and that is how they're making peoples cars going faster and not stopping long enough, who's to say they're using the same technology? they could speed up a small fraction of your speed just to say you didn't stop long enough and you cannot remember if you did make that small stop
When you go before the judge, ask him if he's sworn to uphold the Constitution. Know his reply? "I'm not the one on trial here!" Then walk away because he gave his answer and it's a prejudiced court. Oak Ridge cops can park in the Wal-Mart fire lanes, they can pull up signs, and speed on the roads without flashing lights. That's OK because they're taxing YOU! Move out of town and let it die! In Brazil, they BURN these things down to the ground. THEY know freedom. The SHEEPLE here don't! Ignore the red light tickets and the cameras will go away as they are no longer a cash cow...
Anti-traffic camera activists wage sign wars with Oak Ridge officials
Knoxville News Sentinel
OAK RIDGE - "Kill Traffic Cameras. Obey the Constitution."
Anti-surveillance camera activists in Oak Ridge, including Kay Williamson, continue to put the black-and-yellow signs next to busy city streets.
Over the weekend, city police removed more than 50 of the signs, placed hours earlier. They read: "Kill Traffic Cameras. Obey the Constitution."
City Manager Mark S. Watson called the placing of the signs "a stealth move over the weekend."
He said other signs in violation of city ordinances - including those touting low-cost mortgages, gravel contractors and diet come-ons - were also removed.
"It kind of triggered us looking at everything," Watson said.
Williamson disagrees. She said the city has selectively removed only the anti-traffic cameras sign and ignored other posted notices placed in city right-of-ways.
"They have repeatedly targeted my signs," she said.
She's a member of the Tennessee Liberty Alliance. That organization, she says, seeks to "make sure our rights and liberties are not walked on by the government.''
Comments
I'm just explaining the rationale. The 6th Amendment guarantees your right to confront witnesses against you. In the case of a traffic camera, there is no witness to confront. I've raised the point about a home surveylence system in response to that. The home owner is the witness in that case. There's also a 4th amendment requirement for an oath to be taken before warrants are issued. The point made here is, there is actually a two witness requirement. The arresting officer (4th amendment) and the citizen witness (6th amendment). One's missing from the equation.
This is beginning to get into common law territory as covered by the 7th amendment. There is no victim. Common law basically says, there must be a victim for there to be a crime. On the surface, that isn't so bad of an idea. But, for the sake of argument, I brought up a scenario of someone speeding in a subdivision where my children play. In that case, I'm the witness when I complained, and if an officer stays there and catches the speeder, he has the probable cause supported by an oath or affirmation.
I think the primary complaint a lot of people have is, no person is present. The devices are purely mechanical. A machine can't use discretion. This brings up due process concerns. (5th Amendment)
in response to TennVol01: You hit the nail on the head. Plus, traffic light cameras are now the norm all around the U.S. and many other Westernized countries. They are not going away. They have proven to save money by not needing more traffic control officers, but most importantly they save on accidents and save lives.
BULL #$%@ Congressman Duncan sent out a letter to his district listing 'several' studies that said the cameras increased rear end collisions by a larger percentage than the T-Bone collisions they prevented (in case you do not understand - they increased accidents). They serve only one purpose - $$$$$$$$
The U.S. Judicial system was founded on the belief that all are innocent until proven guilty. The way these cameras are used you are guilty unless you go to court and prove your innocence. That is what makes them unconstitutional.
So, by that reasoning, parking tickets are also unconstitutional?
Concur with Apocrypha. It is not about safety, it is about revenue. It doesn't take much research to dismiss the safety rational.
If you are stopped by the police for the same violation, it is a criminal offense. Which means you are entitled to Constitutional protections. These include a trial by jury and a right to confront your accuser. The government makes the traffic camera offense a civil offense. In other words, your Constitutional Rights do not apply!
Anyone who says these cameras saves lives are truly blind. The companies and the government sell this idea, but in reality are looking for ways to increase revenue! Not one politician who voted for these cameras can say that revenue was not a factor. If he/she does, they are LIARS!
Oak Ridge officials could not tell you if they had an anomalous accident rate at any of the intersections as they perform NO traffic engineering studies. They, like many of municipalities jumped on the low hanging fruit of easy revenue.
Additionally, when the city council voted on the cameras they omitted the fact they are SPEED cameras, too. They essentially lied to their constituents (by omission). Coincidence the camera vote was taken at city election time?
The majority of the citations issued are for SPEEDING…not red light violation. Now, what is the tolerance for the possible differential in speed detection and the operators speedometer? Well, they aren’t telling. Could be 1 mph.
That fact, in and of itself tells you they noting but cheap and easy revenue generators and not utilized for safety.
If you believe a professional politician over thousands of studies around the world ... you are severely ignorant. Do your own research before believing anything a politician tells you. And no ... I am not doing the research for you.
I remember hearing a story about two bored, intelligent (that's usually a bad combination!) children. They took advantage of a local, lucrative speed trap. One child stood a few hundred feet before the speed trap, holding a sign that proclaimed, "WARNING!! SPEED TRAP AHEAD!! SLOW DOWN!!", and waved at passing motorists. (Almost all motorists slowed down.) The other child stood a few hundred feet beyond the speed trap, holding another sign that said "IF YOU DID NOT GET CAUGHT SPEEDING, DONATIONS ACCEPTED HERE!!" The second kid had a plastic bucket for "grateful donations". Reportedly, those kids "cleaned up" that summer, and how! Maybe the woman in Oak Ridge could take some hints from a couple of smart kids who knew how to "play the system".
The reason we've been in two illegal wars for eight years is because no one has had the guts to protest. This protest against infringement of rights is right on. My question, what address can folks across the state donate to support this worthy cause?
Um..last time I checked, we were STILL in Iraq AND Afghanistan. Where, pray tell are those patriotic war protesters now?
Oak Ridge is downright backwards when it comes to traffic control. Case in point: The K-25 plant once employed upwards of 20,000 people in Oak Ridge, served predominantly by the 4 laned Highway 58. Highway 58 by K-25 is even 5 lanes as there is a center turning lane and has been 55 MPH for as long as I can remember, back when 20,000 people a day came and went from the plant. Now there are maybe 1,500 people or so working out there tearing down the place and whatnot and the IDIOTS that are Oak Ridge have LOWERED the speed limit to 45 MPH. Not only have they lowered the speed limit, but it is a full fledged speed trap by K-25 with Oak Ridge Police officers patrolling the area constantly and sometimes in PAIRS! Fair warning folks, these crooks are out to screw us and take our money.
Why would OR want to go there - it is a dying community with struggling businesses already, and it would appear that the managers would want to do everything possible to encourage business traffic...
The people of South Florida are bucking the system by challenging the camera issued tickets in court. It has become such an issue that the cameras are now considered a money pit as it is costing more to defend the tickets in court than what money is gained. Here is a link on how it is going and what they are doing.
Do you have interest in these cameras? You have 235+ posts with half being supportive of these cameras. No ordinary Joe would invest so much time defending them unless they had an interest. Earlier, you stated you were there and saw what was happening with the signs. My bet is you were the one who helped remove them or you are a cop for ORPD. Do the fines go into the general budget, the police budget, or the police retirement? If it is not about revenue, place 100% of the funds in the schools. Anytime there is a shortfall is expected in revenue. You can bet a study is being started to find the next enforcement area!
Have seriously considered moving out of Knoxville because of these cameras. I'm mortified when my out of town guests are sent bills when they visit my house. And my book club has purposely NOT patronized Market Square for dinners anymore b/c several girls have gotten tickets en route in the past. It certainly leaves a disgusting taste of the City of Knoxville in my mouth.
To those that make the argument that this automated surveillance is fine, because if you aren't breaking any laws, you don't have anything to worry about. If we take the same thought process, I assume it's okay if authorities open your mail and wire tap your phone? After all, if you aren't doing anything wrong, you shouldn't care, right?
Granted, the analogy is not perfect, because the mail and your phone is a more private setting than a camera at an intersection, which is very public. But what if the next camera has a high powered lens on it and it looks in your living room window, or bedroom? Or they put a GPS device on your car, so they can track you everywhere, or they check what you've been reading at the library. Privacy and government invasion of that privacy is a very slippery slope....a slope that should not be greased with incrementalism, which is what we seem to be doing here.
Personally, having been victimized by a Knoxville red light camera for not coming to a "complete enough" stop before turning right, I think the red light cameras are a low life, money grubbing, POS way for the government to take money out of my pocket.
Many cities are changing the "turn on red" law. Don't know when it will get to this area.
Typical damn tea party fan! Your rights and liberties include obeying the laws, maintain the speed limit and stop on red and you will have no problems.
He is probably one of the 2 people the scameras employ in the area for tech support!
Yeah, they've created a couple tech support jobs and eliminated a multiple more much needed traffic cop jobs. The next time I get caught by a traffic cop I'm going to show my appreciation for a real human being looking me in the face, instead of a spy camera mail citation.
Okay you fail to answer the questions. I can take the insults because they come from a keyboard. Hopefully not a keyboard owned by a government employer. You have an intimate knowledge of the cameras and the process. Again, no ordinary Joe would invest in half of their online comments without having a personal interest. Just answer the questions.
How many of these camera advocates would allow “big brother” to install enhanced GPS units that tracked every possible violation, every rolling stop, every single MPH over the speed limit, every turn signal violation, every illegal lane change? Then at the end of the month, the owner gets a citation. Just like that. Let me guess, bring’em on, you’re all perfect drivers. Ironically, that is not out of the question. If you told someone 30 years ago RCL would be as prevalent as they are most would have laughed and said the people would stand for it. Now, how about that camera on the light post trained on your front porch?
It's sad to see what Oak Ridge has become. It used to be a special place. Now Oak Ridge is just a dump. I'd rather live in Clinton, Oliver Springs, Harriman, or any of the surrounding communities.
Oak Ridge pays a fee to the company that owns these cameras. "A FEE SYSTEM IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL" No one has attacked Oak Ridge over this and the U.S. Supreme Court ruled all fee systems unconstitutional back in the late 70's. A city can own the cameras and use them but they can't pay a fee per ticket and fine to a company for leasing them. Why no one sees this I'll never know. Maybe I should contact Kay and give her some ammo. Her phone isn't listed. F.Y.I. would the city have to pay back all the money they have collected if I am correct? I wonder>>:):):)
Many of you sound like insurance agents. Will our rates get cheaper the longer the cameras are up? I don't think so. Do you drive 55 in the left lane? Here is a one finger salute to you for that too.
Folks, Oak Ridge has always been a town willing to milk it's residents for money no matter the cause. It's a dried up city just waiting for a good breeze to blow it away. The goverment money has gone away, the outlying areas refuse to be annexed, they can't figure a way to tax the drug dealers in the Valley. All thats left is to levy fines as the Outback and IHOP workers drive to and fro. The only benefit to living there is the free coffee and donuts at the Shell if your a city cop ;)
I wouldn't drive through Oak Ridge unless I had some sort of emergency that made it necessary. Excessive punitive measures for petty "crimes" is a problem, especially considering the violent crime and drug dealing that is going on.
Well put. If I may suggest, the fact it's a civil penalty just shifts the applicable clause to the 7th amendment. Whether or not courts follow it, is entirely another matter, but Constitutionally, if the ticket is more than $20, you have 7th amendment protection. I'd like someone to demand a jury trial, citing the 7th amendment, before agreeing to pay. That would probably give the court a fit. I may also add to your last paragraph, it's about slick salesmen. If it was purely revenue, you wouldn't see these lame deals where the company placing the camera gets 10 times as much money as the city in which the camera is placed.
I agree. I will not go to Oak Ridge because they obviously don't want my business.They do absolutely nothing to encourage it. They do not want contractors from Knoxville to build there.Most Knox County contractors long ago gave up on the Oak Ridge codes people. It really is a dead or dying town that is increasingly being populated by Mexican gangs. But anyway you cut the mustard, the redlight cameras are simply a source of revenue for cash strapped cities.End of story.
I would be happy to donate some money to a group that is fighting this.
Please don't remove the "Obama" signs, everyone needs to know who the idiots are.
Wonder where all those Police State lovers come from:
Cyberwar Revealed: Air Force ordered software to manage army of fake virtual people
Arizona State Appeals Court Photo Radar Decision
Full text of the 1992 Arizona State Appeals Decision forbidding the mailing of speed camera tickets.
In 1992, the Arizona State Appeals Court ruled that mailing of speed camera tickets to motorists violated the law. It required "personal service", that is, hand delivery, of any violation.
Jeffrey J. TONNER, Plaintiff-Appellee, v. PARADISE VALLEY MAGISTRATE'S COURT and Hon. Lester Penterman, a magistrate thereof, Town of Paradise Valley, a municipal corporation, and the State of Arizona, Defendants-Appellants
No. 1 CA-CV 90-429
Court of Appeals of Arizona, Division One, Department C
171 Ariz. 449; 831 P.2d 448; 1992 Ariz. App.
May 12, 1992, Filed
JUDGES: Bolton, Judge.1 Contreras, P.J., and McGregor, J., concur.
OPINIONBY: BOLTON
Defendants-appellants appeal from a superior court judgment vacating an order of civil sanction entered by the Paradise Valley Magistrate's Court on a civil traffic complaint issued to plaintiff-appellee Jeffrey Tonner. Appellee filed a special action in superior court to vacate the order of civil sanction, arguing that the Paradise Valley Magistrate's Court lacked personal jurisdiction when it entered a default judgment against him. The superior court judge found that service by mail under Rule 4.1(c) of the Arizona Rules of Civil Procedure (formerly Rule 4(e)(7)) was not completed prior to entry of judgment and that the judgment entered was void.
On February 11, 1990, the photo radar device operated by the Town of Paradise Valley detected a vehicle registered to General Motors Acceptance Corporation ("GMAC") traveling at an alleged speed of fifty-six miles per hour in a forty mile per hour zone. A summons and Arizona traffic ticket and complaint were mailed to GMAC alleging a violation of Ariz.Rev.Stat.Ann. ("A.R.S.") @ 28-701 (1989), driving at a speed greater than is reasonable and prudent. GMAC forwarded the summons and complaint to appellee and his wife, the lessees of the vehicle. GMAC also sent the Paradise Valley Magistrate's Court a copy of its transmittal letter to appellee. The summons and Arizona traffic ticket and complaint were reissued, naming Tonner as defendant and the vehicle's driver at the time of the alleged violation of section 28-701.
On March 7, 1990, a copy of the summons and Arizona traffic ticket and complaint and two copies of the notice and acknowledgment of receipt of summons and complaint were sent by first-class mail to appellee with a return, postage-paid envelope. The summons directed appellee to appear on March 22, 1990, in the Paradise Valley Magistrate's Court. Appellee never signed and returned the notice and acknowledgment of receipt of summons and complaint nor did he appear on March 22, 1990. On that date, based on appellee's failure to appear, the allegations of the complaint were deemed admitted, and an order of civil sanction was entered against him. The Town of Paradise Valley argues on appeal that use of first-class mail for delivery of a summons and complaint is sufficient for service and to obtain personal jurisdiction over defendants in civil traffic matters. We disagree.
The requirements for service under Rule 4.1(c) are clear. A summons and complaint may be served by first-class mail along with two copies of a notice and acknowledgment of receipt of summons and complaint and a postage-paid return envelope, but service is not complete until the acknowledgment of receipt is executed. Ariz.R.Civ.P. 4.1(c)(1), (2). If the acknowledgment of receipt is not executed, service is not complete under this method even if there is evidence that the summons and complaint were received. See Worrell v. B.F. Goodrich Co., 845 F.2d 840, 841-42 (9th Cir.1988), cert. denied, 491 U.S. 907, 109 S.Ct. 3191, 105 L.Ed.2d 699 (1989). Until service is complete, no personal jurisdiction is obtained, and any judgment entered is void. Endischee v. Endischee, 141 Ariz. 77, 79, 685 P.2d 142, 144 (App.1984); Kadota v. Hosogai, 125 Ariz. 131, 134, 608 P.2d 68, 71 (App.1980).
Appellant argues that requiring execution of the acknowledgment of receipt creates a conflict with A.R.S. @ 28-1076 (1989) because that statute requires the civil traffic complaint to state a time and place for appearance before the magistrate, and if the person summoned fails to appear, the allegations of the complaint will be deemed admitted, a judgment in favor of the State will be entered, and a civil sanction will be imposed. We find no conflict between Rule 4.1(c)(2) and A.R.S. @ 28-1076. Section 28-1076(D) provides that a "person served with a civil traffic complaint" must appear at the time directed or "the allegations in the complaint shall be deemed admitted and the court shall enter judgment for this state." (Emphasis added.) To serve a civil traffic complaint, the State must comply with A.R.S. @ 28-1073 (1989), which requires service "by delivering a copy of the uniform traffic complaint citation to the person charged with the violation or by any means authorized by the rules of civil procedure." A.R.S. @ 28-1073(A).
Appellant attempted service by mail under Rule 4.1(c) by complying with the requirements of Rule 4.1(c)(1). Without a defendant's voluntary complaiance with the requirements of Rule 4.1(c)(2), service is not complete, and no personal jurisdiction over a defendant is achieved. In that event, a plaintiff may attempt service by any other method authorized by Rule 4.1 with the costs of service shifted to the defendant who failed to execute and return the acknowledgment of receipt. Ariz.R.Civ.P. 4.1(c)(3). Nothing in section 28-1073(A) eliminates or modifies any steps required to complete service. Section 28-1076(A)'s requirement that the summons state a time and place for appearance and section 1076(D)'s provision that failure to appear shall be deemed an admission of the allegations in the complaint, requiring the court to enter judgment for the State and impose a civil sanction are not inconsistent with the rules for service by mail or the rules for service by any other means authorized by the Rules of Civil Procedure.
The appellant's recourse when a defendant fails to execute the acknowledgement of receipt is to continue the hearing and serve the complaint by some other authorized method. See Ariz.R.Civ.P. 4.1(c)(3). Until the magistrate's court obtains personal jurisdiction, it has no power to enter an order of civil sanction against a defendant. See Endischee, 141 Ariz. at 79, 685 P.2d at 144; Kadota, 125 Ariz. at 134, 608 P.2d at 71.
We agree with the superior court judge that the order of civil sanction entered against appellee by the Paradise Valley Magistrate's Court is void for lack of personal jurisdiction. We affirm the judgment of the superior court.
Footnotes
1. Note: The Honorable Susan R. Bolton, Maricopa County Superior Court Judge, was authorized to participate in the disposition of this matter by the Chief Justice of the Arizona Supreme Court pursuant to article 6, section 3 of the Arizona Constitution.
See also:
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